Camping Guide

[longjohnsilver]

Alright Thanks alot.

You have been tons of help SACK-U!

Maybe I'll look you up on the Fan Finder and stop by sometime.

[gatorgal]

The non-reserved trackside spots go almost immediately, but there is plenty of acreage inside of greenpark all the time.  There's also a smaller area in the family camp side, if you don't like having vehicles flatten your tent in the middle of the night.  Some races, I couldn't get there until Friday afternoon, and you can always still find space in greenpark--you just won't be right up on the hairpin or the chicane area.  Also a bad idea to camp too close to F-troop area, since you'll have drunken revelers taking a whizz behind or on your tent.

My dad started taking me to sebring back in the late 60's when I was just a wee-lass.  Dad is a bit obsessive-compulsive, so he keeps a running list of things to pack for Sebring.  Each year, he adds new things to it, and now requires an empty pickup truck just for his stuff.

The only things I can think of are:  be prepared for all kinds of weather.  It might be boiling hot, bitter cold, really dusty and dry, or a giant mudbog.  And that's all at the same race, as many on this site can tell you.  Another thing--it's nice to have some kind of groundcover for your general area--between ants, rainwater, overflowing latrines, spilt beer, vomit, and the many other things you'll find, it's nice to have an area where you can sit in your chair and eat your steak and drink your beer without looking at barf.  Some folks bring big pieces of cardboard, or plywood, old carpet remnants, or tarps.  I've done all four, and each has advantages and disadvantages.

Coolers:  You can NEVER bring enough ice.  About a week before the big Wednesday, I start freezing empty 2-liter soda bottles filled with water.  These blocks of ice will keep your beer cold, even if it's just a bunch of cold water left from your crush-ice.  Bring as many coolers as you can lay your hands on.

[Kings_Suck]

My dad started taking me to sebring back in the late 60's when I was just a wee-lass.  

If I remember correctly you were 6 months old?  Can anybody beat that?

These blocks of ice will keep your beer cold, even if it's just a bunch of cold water left from your crush-ice.

Gretch, you should know better than that!  If you want your ice to last--drain the melt water.  Pull the plug and let it drip continuously if you can.  The water's good if you need to cool down hot beer quick, that's it.  Don't bring hot beer--bring more coolers.  Chill the beer in your refrigerator before you leave, don't waste expensive ice on it.

Talk about obsessive/compulsive.  I've got a monster cooler in the back of my pickup, with the drain plumbed with a hose out the tailgate.  Last year I bought about 60 lbs of block ice on Thursday morning and I had enough Sunday night to stick back in the freezer for another time.

[gatorgal]

Actually, Paul, as a mechanical engineer, you should know that water is a much better thermal storage vehicle than air.  Keep that cold water IF you still have a block.  Otherwise, each time you open the cooler, your block has to work twice as hard to get back to comfort zone.    BTW, I was 6 months old in spring 1965, so I was old enough in the early 70's to remember the trauma of crossing the bridges without ear protection, and seeing the biker days of Sebring.  (Although the images are somewhat fuzzy, given my pre-pubescent frame of reference.)  Did I say Pube?  Someone's gonna give me some sh!t about that, aren't they?

[natefromohio]

Did I say Pube? Someone's gonna give me some sh!t about that, aren't they?

Of course not. We're all mature adults here who dont' chuckle at words like that.  :roll:  :roll: And we certainly wouldn't grin slyly if somebody were to mention the word titmouse... :lol:

[SACK-U]

Actually, Paul, as a mechanical engineer, you should know that water is a much better thermal storage vehicle than air.

I never got to the good word. You lost me right here  :lol:

[Kings_Suck]

Actually, Paul, as a mechanical engineer, you should know that water is a much better thermal storage vehicle than air.  Keep that cold water IF you still have a block.  Otherwise, each time you open the cooler, your block has to work twice as hard to get back to comfort zone.    BTW, I was 6 months old in spring 1965, so I was old enough in the early 70's to remember the trauma of crossing the bridges without ear protection, and seeing the biker days of Sebring.  (Although the images are somewhat fuzzy, given my pre-pubescent frame of reference.)  Did I say Pube?  Someone's gonna give me some sh!t about that, aren't they?

I can see why there aren't many girls in mechanical engineering.  Given: 80 deg air outside, 32 deg ice inside, you want to maximize life of the ice.  Heat transfer from outside melts the ice.  What path offers a higher resistance to heat transfer:  cooler wall-->water-->ice or cooler wall-->air-->ice?  Water conducts heat how much better than air--25 times?  I think I had this question on one of Roan's tests in '82.  Saved a lot of money on ice once we started draining the beer keg tubs after that lesson.

I remember being scared shitless my first Sebring (9 yo) the first time I crossed the walkover when a Ferrari 512 passed under.

[gatorgal]

Ah, but there are several variables you haven't taken into consideration on the ice/drainage situation.  First, remember these "frozen blocks" of 2 litre soda bottles are encased in plastic, thus they do not melt into the general pool of the cooler.  It's like an ice cube that doesn't get any smaller.  If I'm a cold beer in a cooler, I'd rather sit in a tub of ice-water, cooled by block ice, than to sit in same cooler surrounded by nothing but air and a block of ice in the other corner.  Each time the cooler is opened, 90+ degree air floods in, and the ice has to start all over again.  When the cooler is full of H20, the thermal storage is enhanced.  

We're also back to the age-old question of whether a full refrigerator or a near-empty one is more energy efficient.  All depends on what you put in the fridge, and how quickly it can cool down.

Finally, and most importantly, have you ever seen those "rapid coolers" for wine bottles at the Publix?  Are they filled with air, or ice cold water?  Obviously, water, because it will cool a warm beer down fastest.  (Unless you're trying to say that the guy who's made millions off that simple device is wrong.)

Maybe girls shouldn't be mechanical engineers, but its fruitless to argue with them none-the-less.

[racerboyadam]

I can not understand why you are pissed like this. He confirmed you as an exclusive fan in a competitive race series with real racefans all over the world.  

Women enginerds are the worst to argue with.  My girlfriend is a member to an entire soroity of them.  What is more funny is that most of them know nothing about racing (with an exception of a few that work on race cars) yet they still think that they know more than me.  They crack me up.

[gatorgal]

I'll agree that women-engineers are difficult.  Interestingly, I recall a few years back when I was summoned by 4 male engineers to the parking lot of the office where I worked.  They had the hood up on a car, and all were peering apprehensively into the dark hole of the engine compartment.  I asked what they needed, and they asked me if I knew how to check the transmission fluid.  They didn't even know there was a dipstick for the tranny, and certainly didn't know they needed the engine running to get an accurate read.  I couldn't help but chuckle since they all had their prof. engineering license, and were making the perfunctory 10% more than the women engineers.  One of them was even looking in the windshield washer reservoir.  Just goes to show having a penis doesn't make one automatically know more about cars.

Back to the cooler argument:  one other thing Kings_Suck is ignoring in his beer keg example that Roan taught him:  beer kegs are typically stored in metallic buckets.  These buckets have significantly less insulativve character than my igloo.  In the keg case, most of your cooling loss is to the walls of the uninsulated drum.  With a cooler, most of the cooling loss is from opening and closing the damn lid.  If you keep your cooler in the shade, or covered by a tarp, I guarantee you are losing all your heat out the top when you open it.  Thus the need for water for thermal storage.  Maybe we should set up an experiment, with identical coolers--oops, I'm sure all the beer will disappear too fast for it to matter.

[racerboyadam]

Just goes to show having a penis doesn't make one automatically know more about cars

Quite true.  I happen to know of one person (who shall remain nameless because he is a member of this site) who filled up his coolant tank with windshield washer fluid (Who cares if it was dark and the bottles were in the same place and were the same shape)  Actually, when you get my girlfriends room mate drunk she likes to think about cars.  It was pretty funny because one night at a bar, we (okay she) sat around doing equations for the ammount of energy lost from a steel driveshaft vs. a composite.  Then I had to carry her home because she was so trashed.  Who does math when they are drunk?  Seriously?  (Okay, so a few times I got drunk and went to math class, but that does not count)

[natefromohio]

Quite true.  I happen to know of one person (who shall remain nameless because he is a member of this site) who filled up his coolant tank with windshield washer fluid (Who cares if it was dark and the bottles were in the same place and were the same shape)  

Fuck you. :twisted:  :twisted: Seriously, you are in need of a good beating. Need i remind that i was in a hurry, and not only were the bottles the same shame, but the fluid was the same color as well. and i realized it and did not drive anywhere until i got all of it out of the resevoir tank with a rather ingenious method i might add. So really, go fuck yourself and bring it on bitch. I know where sleep. remember that. And next time you want to drive my car, remember what transpired here today. And i might let you...after of course you fuck yourself... :x  There i think i got my point across.. :lol:

[SACK-U]

ROTFLAMO

[Kings_Suck]

Maybe girls shouldn't be mechanical engineers, but its fruitless to argue with them none-the-less.

This is the only part of your post that is correct.

Re-read my original post on the subject.  I agreed that a water-ice bath is the quickest way to cool hot beer.

My statement of fact is "ice will last longer in a cooler if the melt water is drained."

Cooling the air after opening the cooler is insignificant compared to the heat transfer into the closed cooler.  And your argument about the thermal mass of the water isn't even correct.

Let's say you have a perfect cooler--zero conduction through the walls.  Its inside volume is 2 cuft and it is half full of water and ice (1/2 cuft water, 1/2 cuft ice).  The water, ice, and air inside are all at equilibrium--32 deg F.  Open the lid so that the 1 cuft of cold air is replaced with air at 90 F.  Close cooler and let it reach equilibrium again.

By your argument, the cold water has a high specific heat, so it loses little temperature in cooling the air.  But it would have to heat up slightly to cool the air.  So the water is say, something like 32.1 F.  And then the next time you open the cooler the water is at 32.2, etc., and the ice doesn't melt.  You know that's not going to happen.

The water/ice mix is in a two phase state, so its temperature has to stay at 32.0 F.  That only happens if some of the ice melts.

(mass of ice melted)(latent heat melting ice)=(mass of air)(specific heat capacity air)(temperature change air)

As you argue, the specific heat capacity of air is small.  And the mass of 1 cuft of air is small, so the amount of ice melted is tiny.  The heat capacity of the water does not even enter into the equation.

The only thing the melt water does is displace air.  If you drained the cooler and repeated the above calculation, you would find that more ice would melt only because there would be 1-1/2 cuft of air to cool instead of 1 cuft.  The difference is a mosquito fart in a hurricane.

Of course the cooler is not a perfect insulator, and the heat transfer path from outside air to the ice is much more significant.

[natefromohio]

Alright, I'm taking squares on who will be the first to throw down and really make an argument for their engineering beliefs. I can wait until they are both good and drunk. Then this engineering arguments will be really funny. I want to see two slurring drunks talk about melting points, specific heat, and conductivity... :lol: